The Dev is in the Details

From Dance Floors to Cityscapes: Martin Eyerer’s Visionary Journey

Lukasz Lazewski

► How does one transition from spinning records to reshaping urban landscapes?

In this episode, host Łukasz Łażewski sits down with Martin Eyerer, an acclaimed musician turned innovative entrepreneur. From electrifying dance floors to co-founding Riverside Studios and leading Factory Berlin, Martin’s career exemplifies creativity and adaptability. Now, as a driving force behind Green City Development GmbH, he’s redefining sustainable city planning with a pioneering 150,000 sqm European lighthouse project in Berlin.

Martin shares his remarkable story, from merging his passion for music with technology to influencing urban development and public policy. We delve into his multifaceted career and uncover the insights that have guided him across music, tech, and entrepreneurship.

► Our guest 🌟

Martin Eyerer 👉 https://www.linkedin.com/in/martin-eyerer-450232137/ 

Musician, entrepreneur, and innovator leading urban transformation at Green City Development GmbH.

► In today’s episode:

  • The journey from artist to entrepreneur: Key turning points in Martin’s career.
  • Balancing creativity with strategic leadership in business and city development.
  • How music, technology, and community building intersect in urban planning.
  • The challenges and rewards of reimagining urban spaces for sustainability.
  • Lessons from Martin’s involvement in government delegations and international collaborations.

► Decoding the timeline:

00:00 Building Networks for Innovation and Success

06:42 Entrepreneurial Vision and Global Connections

19:50 Transforming Industrial Spaces Into Innovation Districts

28:26 Collaboration in Innovation Ecosystems

34:54 Political Engagement for Global Innovation

43:43 Building a Community for Success

52:52 Expressing Gratitude and Continuing Collaboration

► Find out more about Martin!
Facebook Profile 
SoundCloud Profile
Instagram Profile
GCD website

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The Dev is in the Details is a podcast where we talk about technology, business and their impacts on the world around us.

Łukasz Łażewski 👉 https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukasz-lazewski/
Write to us 👉 podcast@llinformatics.com

Speaker 1:

we tend to forget our networks and that's the most powerful thing we have Never forget what you have done before. Try to build on the reputation, to build a network a bit somehow. In a curated network, there is no competition Because if you create it well, there is no competition. There's five factors why cities with a very good startup ecosystem work. The five factors why cities with a very good standard ecosystem work. The five factors are access to funding, access to talent, which is universities, network infrastructure.

Speaker 2:

Today I'm privileged to host a visionary entrepreneur whose career spans over 35 years of innovation, entrepreneurship and networking. From spinning records on dance floors worldwide to founding Riverside Studios and leading factory Berlin, martin Ayerer has continuously pushed the boundaries of creativity and community building. Now, as a driving force behind Green City development, he is leading the groundbreaking 150,000 square meters European Lighthouse project in Berlin, reimagining urban spaces for sustainability, innovation and community living. Arten welcome to the Deaf is in the Details. I am beyond excited for our conversation. Thanks a lot for having me. Your journey from renowned musician to successful tech entrepreneur is nothing short of inspiring. Can you take us back to the beginning and share with our listeners what initially sparked your interest in the tech industry and how did you transition?

Speaker 1:

I think when you asked me what I do and my daughter one day asked me that, when people ask me what is your dad doing and I have this many different hats on my head, I say I'm an entrepreneur and this is actually what I've been all my life. I started DJing in 86. I was 16 these days. Those days I studied, went to law school in there also in the same time and I always tried to do something like from a delivery service, but, by the way, there was no mobile phones, that and no apps these days. So it failed big time. But I tried to come up with a service and tried other stuff which succeeded in running small labels, music production, because I went in this field and I I was always driven to think things further. Even when it came to music production, I slowly yeah, like grew in into, let's say, I.

Speaker 1:

I had always this big fear of repeating myself and that was sometimes a negative thing because we had some charts, successes, that in the sales charts, and you could easy, as other artists, when you could call, frame it, even positively. You found sometimes a negative thing because we had some charts, successes, sales charts, and you could easily, as other artists do and you could frame it even positively. You found your signature sound and it's not like you repeat yourself. But I was always worried that I repeat myself and I have to prove myself. What I do is not random, it's something that I'm capable to do and I'm driven always by thinking things further. And since I have this music career that was more than 30 years in industry, on the one hand as a producer, also for commercial records. We hit the sales charts in the US with an album on rank two by the number one in UK and across the globe Impressive, pretty okay or good successes. I also pushed my own electronic underground music career later and traveled really heavily for 20 years around the globe.

Speaker 1:

I always, on the side, thought what can I do next? I started a media company with some partners. We even did promotion for a telephone company For a couple of years. Actually, we handled a key account. I moved to Berlin, started Riverside Studios with my partners, but not having on mind there's a big business, it's just something we started and I think this is maybe also what is how I work.

Speaker 1:

I do things without let's not say I don't have a plan. I have a vision and then I do things and try to to get somewhere, and then things evolve and then somewhere on the way you need to okay, where's my business case? How can I make something out of it? But that never was the route of doing something. That came always later, when you start to hire people, when you want to live from it, and so I thought, okay, now let's really look into it.

Speaker 1:

We created a business and when we built Riverside Studios literally built them we ended up with sitting one day there and it's like, oh, we founded a company who will run it, because that was not the goal. We wanted to build studios for ourselves, thinking of community and building more out of it. I answered the tech question now and we built something that is known globally as a music ecosystem, I believe, because we rented out studios, but we built something more behind. We have, since eight years, a partnership with the New York University, with the Clive Davis Institute, same as of partnerships with music tech industry. Gema has a studio with us, we do events, we do a lot of more things, and one day a guy stepped into my life, I have to say, but into Riverside Studios, and said, wow, what you built here is a community around creative economy.

Speaker 1:

What I run is a community around tech industry and he was fascinated that we have a lot in common without really knowing what the others does, because usually when you're in one industry there's not so many cross points to the other industry, so you're not really into the other industry. But one day he called me. We became friends and said you know, martin, I would love to have you leading what I built, because what I did became too corporate and I want more entrepreneurs leading it and changing it. And that's kind of truly there's more steps in between over politics, over real estate development when it comes to creative space. That is kind of how I even got into the tech space and when I started that, I first subscribed to all the newsletters and all just to learn what are the players in this industry, who are the people there.

Speaker 1:

And also, I started really actually from zero because, again, I was studying the music industry and I was a bit bored of it. That was one of many reasons why I did that step, yeah, and that's why I'm on the next phase in my life after a few personal disruptions. I proactively did not, because I had some incidents in my life. I always, and that's what I said in the beginning. I always think, okay, what can I do next? Um, what, where's the next thing? How can we develop things, sort of that's amazing and really impressive.

Speaker 2:

How, how journey that you went through. How it sounds, Can you speak a bit towards when you said you're a visionary. How do you find your counterparts who help you hands-on develop the idea and shape it towards the final result?

Speaker 1:

It's a good question. I believe heavily in first you build, and I believe heavily in first you build connections to people, and then you think what can we do together Other than I have an ID? Who can help me? That's not how I am. I mean later, when something is running, yes, you think of people who can contribute, but in my life I never started any venture like that. Example Riverside Studios.

Speaker 1:

I was searching for a space for one year, actually longer. I thought it would be easy in 2011 or 12, when I came to Berlin to find some space. But then I learned, hey, there is this space. So I walked to that space. It had this beautiful river view, but it was actually a basement with nothing inside. So a lot of construction, but I saw more. What can happen inside there. So I called my partners and said, hey, I found it. They came. They said are you crazy? This is full, there's nothing. I said, yeah, but look on the water view, look on the location. I had a vision. I can see what's happening. I said are you crazy? We will be ending up constructing and all of that, but we're musicians. So they were out and I went to see a friend for dinner.

Speaker 1:

It was Tassilo from Panpile DJ, a duo space. He asked me what you're doing? I said I'm building studios. He said I'm in really, yeah, let's do it together, okay. But then another friend that was really true. On that day I drove home and my good old friend, jade's weight, from beirut called me, where I used to play for many years and we built a relation together. We felt, man, we should do something together one day and he said what you're into? I said I just met tassilo, we're building day. And he said what you're into? I said I just met Tassilo, we're building studios here. And he said yeah, that is the thing we always said let's do something I'm into. And that's how it worked. You know it's like built first is the relations where people I can trust. I see they're like-minded with me, they're proactive doers, entrepreneurs, and then let's see what we do together. And I think everything I did in my life worked always the same way.

Speaker 2:

And it sounds like it's a shared passion, right? Because you always mentioned that these guys, they were always into similar things and also in pursuit of their own passions, and you find it very compatible with one another, right?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think one of my strengths is to sell visions actually and convince people Some people regret it, maybe a little bit later, because it was way more work and the way it's hard. But at the end, I don't know, no one regretted it. I guess no. But this is maybe the thing, and I have also my weaknesses. But I think in this field I can transport visions and buy people in.

Speaker 1:

And then I think again if there was mutual trust before, that you would say and I have this feeling, those people when I meet them and we know each other better, okay, would I run a company with this? Yes, I would. I don't know what it is, you know, and it could be completely interdisciplinary. I never think like, okay, this person has this quality or this and that, but it's like, okay, person from the character I could imagine doing business together and that's how it started. And then I'm the one who sells the vision. But then I need maybe people who sometimes also are better in going into depth operations, stuff like that, where maybe that is my fields of improvement. But that's kind of how it went.

Speaker 2:

Do you think that you always had this or it built up because of your background in arts and that allowed you to connect and transition to be a leader, an entrepreneur, because of you know music connection?

Speaker 1:

yeah exactly because maybe maybe I went into creative economy and and creative field because I am like this there could be I don't know, I can't answer that 100, but for now I'm just thinking while speaking. But I can say one thing most people who are in that space and I changed my character, changed through that you learn to be open to people. Most people I know who go into this field are not people who are super open. Actually I wasn't and I had to learn it.

Speaker 1:

Also, you play shows in front of people and if you watch some artists they try to hide and not watch people's eyes because they're afraid of. Maybe it's not good what you do, but once you grow and you do your play shows, you become better in it and all the traveling changed my personality a lot. You really become an open-minded not open-minded like an open person, not saying extroverted, but like really absolutely easy speaking to new people. And I saw that on myself and I think that goes in line with what you asked, that maybe it's then more easy also to connect with people, have a better ceiling for personalities and then it maybe succeeds more into growing a trusted network because you understand more and more that you also have to first give to people and then learn from it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely I agree with everything you said, especially with opening up.

Speaker 1:

As an introvert myself, I must say I'm still in the process of learning this heavily, because you know, Go traveling for five years around the globe alone go to North Mexico, to Tibet, all these kind of things and you will change from being an introvert because you will speak to people, People speak to you. It will happen actually and then, step by step, will change you. I was more like that. Actually Can't imagine that now anymore, but I remember it wasn't easy for me and, yeah, the traveling changed me a lot. It's a beautiful thing actually and it's a gift that I could walk that through.

Speaker 2:

Actually, oh, absolutely. This resonates with me very well, martin, because I left Poland myself and traveled through the Western countries. Mostly I didn't go to anywhere too exotic, but, yeah, absolutely, did it change on you? Did you have some effect? Absolutely, absolutely. I think I'm a completely different person now and with every single pit stop that I had, uh, in all the different places, including berlin, um, I learned something new, and berlin actually is the, the place which opened me up to a lot of, let's say, um, extrovert experimentation in conversations with individuals, people, not only startups, community, but also in the, you know, in party scene, let's call it that way. Yeah, that's a very positive effect on me. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, traveling is plus one. Any particular reason why these two locations like Tibet and Mexico?

Speaker 1:

No, it was random because its locations maybe you don't expect a lot. I was more not a festival DJ, more in clubs and I had my following in Sioux territories more heavily, which Russia was one of the countries. So you go to Siberia, to Vladivostok, I saw the whole country, altai Mountains, everywhere. Mexico, south America, was strong. I traveled heavily there and even in parts where usually it's not the most, let's say, the most attractive tourist areas North Mexico, which is dangerous in terms of cartels and stuff, but there were everywhere parties. But then I was also in Tibet and China and I really traveled the globe and I just picked random two destinations. You would not maybe expect to be so much Wow.

Speaker 2:

That's amazing. I didn't know so much. Wow, that's amazing. I didn't know that about you. So that's amazing, really cool, cool. So you know, among all of these ideas, I'm sure there is an entire sea of those ideas right in your mind. How do you pick the one that you really want to do next? What are your criteria?

Speaker 1:

I mean it's, except maybe once in my life, which was two years ago, where I really sat down like, okay, what do I really actively do next? Before I never thought what will I really do. It came one thing out of the next, in a way, you know, and there was this big shift from everything I did before to start working for Factory, because I've never been in my life employed by someone, I have not led 100 people and meeting a completely new culture where people go with PowerPoint slides into meetings, which was big learning, reporting to investors and all that. But it was a step that came kind of naturally out of what I said before meeting one person, udo, and he gave me that chance and asked me. But then, after leaving Factory, after five years, and I said always I will do this for three, but I did it five and it was a great journey and a lot of learnings. But it was clear I'm that I'm an entrepreneur and not an employee, because the difference is I had so heavily other ideas on mind that if it would have been my company, maybe I would have taken different strategy and a different route, which is fair. So it was not my company. So I left factory factory.

Speaker 1:

In a moment that was, I think, the right one, because some things I wanted to achieve for me were there and also there was next steps of strategy. I was maybe not the right person to go with, but then I had this first time, the moment. What do I really do now? I was 52 years old. That was two years ago, I think. Okay, I can maybe really go and work crazy 10 years, and it doesn't mean you stop afterwards, but it is always like how much energy can you really dedicate if you are a founder? And I thought, really, what do I do? And in this case I sat down and kind of did not think what do I do. I thought into my network, which are the people who I evaluate high, who maybe run companies or have certain positions in my networks and I will call them all and speak with them that I'm thinking what I do next. And that's the way how I think actually always.

Speaker 1:

I think I always think first into my network and we tend to forget our network and that's the most powerful thing we have that you could sit there in a quick moment and say, wow, my music career actually was a break of five years. I can't live from it easy anymore. I would need to reinvest years to get where I was. Not easy, I was coming out of a position. Do I want to apply for a job? No, also not the right thing for me. So what do you do with your life? You need to live from something and you could be afraid or whatsoever, but I always think, no, wait, I know so many people and they know what I'm good at and what not, and let's call them. And that helped me also generally to have options on the table, because I did that and of course, I had options what to do become a co-founder or come into a startup or discuss being a senior advisor and one on the top three advisory stuff like that, you know. But my next step and that's actually funny running green city development.

Speaker 1:

What we do now actually came also out of a journey that I in parallel did, thinking of what we did at riverside Studios and politician asked me we should do that in bigger. That is like a curated space where also the finance behind are like a mix of also subsidized internal subsidized model that you have maybe creative people who cannot pay so much, but you have others. They come from more like other sectors, they pay more and you do like an internal cross-calculation, but then as an effect, you have an ecosystem that works and my partner my business partner and me we develop concepts for spaces. Because a politician asked about Riverside Studios, developed two years with my brother who's an architect, my partner from Beirut. They have a big marketing group and they run big festivals. We developed a concept for Altemünze for two and a half years, which is a big space in Berlin that is owned by public hand, and they were all thinking what to do with it except selling it. So we went into metrics of real estate and operational models with a curated ecosystem. So I did this in parallel for 10 years.

Speaker 1:

But then suddenly, in that moment, when I just spoke after factory, a guy called me from my network. He said hey, martin, there's someone from Philip Morris who wants to speak to you, because I told him you're the one who can help them. So I met this guy and he said yeah, we're Philip Morris, I come from Munich. Here we have this largest factory for cigarette production. We closed it already down, at least for 80%, and we want to build a big innovation hub. Everyone told me you are the one who can help me.

Speaker 1:

So that's kind of naturally again developed something out of my experience at Factory, berlin, industry, startup and real estate industry also, which is another thing that I learned at Factory and all the other stuff that I did before and this is what we then grew into like was big journey also to get like the full job and everything. But that's what we do today and, um, again, it came out of the things I did before and it's I mean, it's already what steve chop says connecting the dots and you can only measure things by looking back, not looking forward. Right, this is a typical example. Again, everything I did before now plays into this project, which even there was things like questions why do I invest so much time into politics, especially part of states, but local politics? Now it all helped me to get where we are looking back and that's why I got a natural development and evolution.

Speaker 2:

No, absolutely, and I think from my own observation you know on the sidelines and also hearing you now, I think a lot of this is related to your stellar reputation, right, Because you build up on this and you build upon every past project towards where you are currently. So that's, I think, what. Yeah, a quick observation, what it looks like from my side.

Speaker 1:

It's true what you say and if I can add that I once asked myself what is really the meaning of Riverside Studios. It's a company. It is, in our sector, really known globally. Actually, People know it because we have this community of 60 high-profile people and big artists come there to do listening sessions and so forth. But it's not the most crazy business case. It's okay, you can live from it and it's all right, but this is not a scalable business and given the effort we put in three years constructing ourselves because we ran out of money and all you would say on a white paper and see the business case not so cool, but I understood one day. For me, the paper and see the business case not so cool, but I understood one day.

Speaker 1:

For me, the most important thing about Riverside Studios is that people believe me or us, that we do something proper. It has this reputation and it's the next step on the next higher level. Let's say, Udo gave me the job as CEO at Factory because he saw that I built Riverside Studios, which has reached something. That's what you say, and I think it is important that, even if people, when you mentor younger people or any people, what should I do next? You can do something, but never forget what you have done before and never cut it completely off. I always say try to build on the reputation, to build a network, to build somehow and even if it's just and that was my point even if it's just a certain reputation in a field, that people believe you, that you can do certain things.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and never burn your bridges right. That's the key. Absolutely, absolutely. Thanks for sharing this. So can you say a little bit more what that Green City Development GmbH is about? What are you now building? To our listeners it sounds amazing. The sheer size of it, yeah, totally.

Speaker 1:

So our mission is actually to transform former industrial spaces into creative and innovation districts, not replicating one concept we have. We are strong in developing a concept generally because we have also two more bigger clients for bigger projects, which is in the earlier stage of the developing phase on the decision on what we will help them, but we already work with them. So our strength is to develop operational concepts in these former industrial spaces that serve a few stakeholders needs First, the owner of the asset. Second, politics you need politics, always for permissions, but maybe for more. Third, we have a business case that should work. We have to calculate. And fourth, there is a market environment that you build, an operational concept that also works on the market. That's the four asset stakeholders. And these concepts, then, are also not just marketing or a communication concept. It's really in-depth how you can operate the whole thing.

Speaker 1:

So what we do with Philip Morris and for Philip Morris, what I said before they asked for Innovation Hub and we convinced them just to have an Innovation Hub as many others do, with all the logos on their wall is not really what we believe sustainably works. We believe first, you create a reason why people go to a space which is not the space. That means, if you look for an office and you provide just an office, you compare by location, by fit out, by pricing and everything, and then it's because the office. But if there's another reason why you come because your business gets better, because you get inspired there's many other reasons, but then also, of course, there's a space that gives the, the whole environment to happen inside. It's, it's clear, but it should not be the main reason and that's why our concept comes into play. What is the reason why people? Which people would be there and how can you get better? By that's what we call an ecosystem, that you find everything you need to make your business better, which is access to clients I can test my mvp, I have access to capital, um, I have access to innovation, to university landscape and so further, which is a completed puzzle that your business gets better.

Speaker 1:

And the second, that's the ecosystem, business. And then the second layer is the community. That's the social aspect. That what I said before. I first make social connections, get friends with people, build trust, and then I can think of my business. Then we play both layers and this needs to be thought through before we think even into a real estate, because this is the thing, and that's what I said before market stakeholders, politicians, a larger score which has the social factors and everything, and they luckily agreed on everything and we built with them together a project called Neuland Berlin, which is the brand we are building up here.

Speaker 1:

So it's not a Philip Morris campus, it's their former factory for cigarette production, and why would they not sell it, what they usually do?

Speaker 1:

They want to have access to innovation for their own transformation. So the concept we're building with them is a industry 4.0 concept which provides everything to the industry, smes in industries what they need for the transformation, which is also access to certain fields of innovation. It's deep tech, it's robotics, ai, cloud computing, big data and so further, and an environment which is also highly connected to the best research, academia and education in the world as a network and then surrounded by certain social topics like sports, like entertainment, creativity and gastronomy. And that's what we're building with them on 150,000 square meters, which is big as even a small part of a city 30 big buildings, not so many offices. So that is something that could be misleading. Innovation Hub everyone thinks of startups, but we have this big production and storage halls with offices and we are focusing actually also on industry and SMEs, as I said, who provide a mix of two and widecollar profiles and building all the ecosystem around it.

Speaker 2:

That's very impressive. How much is this tied to the local politicians? I'm curious because, or how is let me reverse this question how is this scalable with all the local politicians' support in the different regions, in the different cities across Germany or EU in general?

Speaker 1:

This is not built to scale in the meaning of. Can we build this in every city? Not, because this concept here is tailored exactly to what I said. What does stakeholder number one want? That's really more transformation, access to innovation. What are the fields? It's the fields, I said, around industry 4.0. What does the fields? It's the fields I said, around industry 4.0.

Speaker 1:

What does the politics in the local district need to give us a permission for repurposing in an industrial zone? They say it's an industry zone and our pitch is okay, we get that, but the industry of tomorrow is different than yesterday. Yesterday, 2,000 people standing on CNC machines whatsoever producing something. Tomorrow, highly-automized, different profile based jobs, factory and third, business case works. Fourth, market environment.

Speaker 1:

And one of the goals of StreetMonitor has is also eye level with generally global political stakeholders. So the topic of industry and SMEs is a topic you can address to them because it's one of the big problems in Europe and in Germany even more Transformation of industry leaving Europe for production. But why would they stay here? So that is the reason why we're bringing this concept here on this specific location and that sends to that really also analyzing what can we really do with this location. We have. My partner, my business partner, has also a big team of experts in constructing and things like that and technical skills on technical facility trained people. So we analyze what can we do with the building, what can happen inside. We're not tearing this down, building something new. We're constructing the whole concept in what is there and it's so slightly different.

Speaker 2:

I like that and, yeah, to also recognize it for what it was and what it's going to be right, because I mean, you know, philip Morris is a massive brand but because of the cigarettes and transitioning away from the business, I guess that's also at the very core of the message that is being sent here. As you said, uh, industry of yesterday, industry of tomorrow, um, so how is the educational component and how do you engage? Like for individuals or individual startups? Is that a space where you imagine someone can come in and grow as an individual or as a as a starting entity of two, three, four, four co-founders, gain some traction, gain some momentum, maybe investment? How would you, if you could speak to that a little bit more, how would you imagine there is an immediate value for individuals and early stage companies like that?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think when it comes to the education part and actually you asked me two questions the role of the educational part and that's more, the research and innovation part of universities and academia is something that you need in an ecosystem that works. There's five factors why cities with a very good standard ecosystem work. The five factors are access to funding, access to talent, which is is universities, network, infrastructure, location, marketing. That's the five factors and when you build an ecosystem, you need to look into providing all the factors you need. So your question was can individuals grow If we provide all of these factors? Well, yes, they will grow and that is the goal that we have.

Speaker 1:

But the thing is it's not just about individual founders. It can be also a startup becoming a scale-up, or it can be an SME or even an old-grown industry transforming, needing access to first innovation coming out of university. They want a spin-off. We help them, maybe connecting them to industry and capital. Capital is actually SMEs and capital in Germany is a lot of connection, like Germany offices, so they maybe finance something. We help with the innovation part, connecting entrepreneurs with academia, and that's how actually an ecosystem works.

Speaker 1:

So the most important thing is to take care of the mix and see what are the missing factors, that you build them up, but in the beginning always look what is there to build, non-random something, and that's why, coming back to the point, why we build the concept we have here, and the answer is yes, definitely that's the goal that individual founders can grow wherever they want to grow in terms of if it matches the story and the topic we provide here. But we're not just focused on founders. I have to say that this is what mostly innovation hubs do. We have a heavy focus on industry because we have also this pulse here and I think that is a bit of a differentiator that we have, because most of the startup hubs I know they provide spaces where people can sit in teams, offices, and again, we have this chance here that we have production halls and we really want to focus industry and SMEs, but as well on farmers too.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so you just want to facilitate. Like you know, I know of, you know some of the biggest automotives in Germany. They have their own innovation hubs, right. So would that collaborate with them? Or is it more of a competing project, so to say? Because at the end of the day, in berlin you have a limited set of universities, limited set of people, you know, finishing them, so the access to academia, access to talent, even access to the funders or maybe capital, has to be divided between all the different players in those in those hubs. Do you consider this um a different play, or or would you collaborate with them as well and they're going to be part of that community? I'm just trying to understand how the, how the project will grow um in the city of berlin. But also, for what is its its potential for, for example, I don't know from munich?

Speaker 1:

in a curated network there is no competition. Because if you create it well, there is no competition. There is a competition. If you don't curate it, then it's like platform economy there's supply and demand and if suddenly the one side that has the higher need, maybe then there would be a competition. But if you curate it, there is not. And that means well curated networks go, even grow, when you connect them to other networks. And that's why I think, to become concrete, if we have partnerships with, let's say, we already agreed with Munich on the name of whom we're going to have a partnership with them, that is Universität der Künstlerikon Berlin let's think together to provide a programming. We can deliver to the programming what we're strong at and what you're strong at, and that's an offer for your students or your partners and it's an offering for our students and partners. So I don't think that there is the risk of becoming like a competitor.

Speaker 1:

I highly believe in the collaborative approach generally, especially when it comes to networks and especially if we think of bigger ecosystem, which is in a city like Berlin, where there's so many chances. The market is big enough that if you do believe in your own strengths, you don't need to be always afraid strengths. You don't need to be always afraid, or you generally don't need to be afraid of competition, because when you're good at what you do, then there is your core offering and I think it's more a collaborative approach, and it needs also to be. And we come back again to the concept if you have a clear value proposition, then once you do this setup in the beginning, of course you look into the market. It doesn't make sense to have number eight AI campus in one city and we had these discussions with our stakeholder, because there are technologies that are most interesting in the future and AI is one of them.

Speaker 1:

But should we do another AI hub? No, there is one in Berlin. Maybe the most vibrant one is in Heilbronn, in Munichich is a strong and so further. So it can be a um, a cluster we can address because it's also part of the industry 4.0. So it should be not our core value proposition. And once we did that in the beginning, we have a clear value proposition and then I think you can look for partners to, yeah, like um, complete the puzzle with your partners and help them also in their field.

Speaker 2:

Totally yeah. I'm a big fan of collaboration over competition as well in environments like this Last question on this. So it means you highly VAT all the entities and individuals who are going to join this community, right, just to have this kind of sense of where I mean you have to do that.

Speaker 1:

Otherwise, a platform doesn't work. If you're Amazon and there's only suppliers with some product I don't know pencils and there's no clients who want to buy customers who want to buy pencils, your platform doesn't work. So you have to curate. Okay, there is a demand for pencils. Let's have maybe only five suppliers or a limited amount of products on the site, as long as we take care of the demand side and build it up. And curation is always the key in every ecosystem, and without curation it doesn't work Fantastic Thanks.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for sharing this. So, switching to something else, because I know we had a lot of conversations about this, you had been involved in what I would call an official governmental delegation to Indonesia and Albania and so on. Is this part of that research that led to what you're currently doing, or is this a different project? I mean, I'm fascinated when I look at your activities, how you find time and how you organize all of that you know in your life to be able to be part of all of these initiatives. So if you could speak a little bit to this, I would appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

I am involved in politics since 10 years now, maybe nine something. I, as always in my life, I kind of naturally moved in after a guy knocked on my door when we built Riverside Studios. I opened the door. We were in constructing costs and like helping because we ran out of money Bootstrapping was the thing. And the guy said hello, I'm a member of parliament. I heard you do something in creative, do you need support? And I was like, wow, where's the camera Come in? So he and he didn't say which party he was from he said I'm a member of parliament.

Speaker 1:

So it turns out he is a politician since decades. He himself gave him this mission to support the berlin creative and culture scene. He's from cdu and besides the fact that I believe on the basic principle of the cdu, which says we give the conditions but then, inside the frame conditions, people have the freedom to act and other parties have different approach and it's just a question of what is your approach. It's not better or worse I felt like, okay, if there's people like this, I want to also be involved there and I will be active. And that's how I slowly said to this guy we became friends that I will be engaging in the CDU also for the topic of creative economy, helping to push in Berlin the awareness of the role of creative economy, helping to push in Berlin the awareness of the role of creative economy, which now it changed, not because just we did that, because the last 10 years something really changed. But I remember we still 10 years ago we had to convince politicians to believe that creative economy globally has more turnovers and headcount than automotive industry. Because the problem with creative economy was that you were always in this draw of there's something creative which is nice for entertaining, but it's not business, but thinking of big groups of media, of film, of Web 3.0, and so forth and so forth. Of course it's, I think even one of the driving industries when it comes to tech space, actually when it comes to innovation.

Speaker 1:

And I became just more naturally involved in politics and I was like I'm this guy, okay, I really push the topics forward. And I realized also, since I'm a networking person and DJing, being a successful DJ traveling around the globe, means you need to be a really good networker Because there is this kind of different groups of promoters or festivals you should play with, you should be good with maybe others not so much because they're in competition, be loyal here. So you become like a networking expert, I would say, if you're really successful in that and politics works, the same. So I felt very, let's say, normal how you become more successful, meaning getting more into positions where you can make a change, maybe. And um, yeah, in these 10 years I moved into more and more this field and realized also that especially the networks behind politics is the interesting thing, because I'm not a politician. I'm in a party engaging, but I'm not a politician. The difference is you are in a party and you get a mandate and then you become a politician. That is having a mandate, which is not what I do and not what I want to do. It's not my goal. My goal is to engage in a party and try to change, maybe for the better, becoming maybe more in your focus topics and so forth.

Speaker 1:

And I realized that there is also this network behind of economy of whatsoever People. Who this network behind of economy of whatsoever people who are in committees Not everyone there is in a party, but you get like a really good high level network and I'm more and more moved into that. And today I'm at CDU Berlin in the States board and I'm leading also a one of the committees on the on the States level which is about digital economy. I switched more from time to the digital economy aspect and I see more and more that it's a really high investment of time, but it goes really hand in hand with everything what I do and I like also you mentioned I've been to Jakarta with Senator for Economy and I went to Albania. I had the chance to meet the prime minister and I'm a big fan of the Balkan region, just was on a panel just today. Someone from Bosnia was there and they're asking me if we maybe can advise them building an ecosystem and I'm really interested in that because I think you can move things and help that things go into a certain direction.

Speaker 1:

And I'm just in two weeks leaving for next delegation trip, weeks leaving for next delegation trip. I was very gladly also got the goal to with our Minister, president, the Mayor of Berlin, to New York, boston and Los Angeles where we meet, where we visit companies or universities. That helps us very much for the Ireland Berlin project and this delegation travels. They are not trips, they are not just, they are not at all leisure. They have a clear focus that they take entrepreneurs with them to connect them with in other countries to businesses, in order to bring business also to Germany and help their companies to grow. And also you pay by yourself. That's not something that you get covered, but it's a door opener, which I learned. That helps really a lot.

Speaker 1:

And yeah, then I'm there. And then we have also just agreed with Plug Play, which is one of the leading accelerators, incubators globally, and we have a three-year partnership here at Neuland Berlin. So they have their summit in San Francisco, so I'll fly there and they will give me a tour to the Valley ecosystem and make us introductions and like all that pays into building the network and the partnership network for neuland berlin and showcases how being involved in politics really can help. Like what you do, besides of when you distribute who are actively to to make a change for where they live and on the district level they are engaged. So politics is something everyone could consider be active. It's a volunteer thing. Everyone I know is bashing politicians, but no one wants to be engaged, but 95% of the people who are in parties they don't get money for it. It's voluntarily work and anyone can go and say, hey, I'm here. Whatever party you prefer. I want to be engaged and help things, so, and that's what I did.

Speaker 2:

And then the return is also you use it for your network thank you for sharing this, first of all, and that's really impressive because, yeah, there is this connotation of, yeah, everyone is complaining about how things are and no one is willing to take action in their own hands and, you know, do something about it. And you just did exactly this, which is fascinating and really impressive. And, um, even the way you speak about it, with a degree of, you know, calmness and, like normal thing, like you volunteered to try to make an impact for your uh community, for your city, that's fascinating. I have never considered this for myself, uh, but you, you know, one of the notes I have taken from this is to even rethink that. Right, what would that mean for myself now to act on some of my own instincts and ideas and collaborate with the local lawmakers to make that happen?

Speaker 1:

And you, know, that's the nice thing about democracy, lukasz, this is, you can actively do something to make a change, and this is something beautiful, I have to say.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean it's ownership in its cleanest form, right, because you can own the surrounding reality and form it to your liking, with convincing people to follow you or get similarly minded people to create this reality for yourselves and for the rest of the community.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, yeah, wow, and those I don't know how to call them alliances that you mentioned with the other entities from across the ocean and in Asia and closer here to home in Albania, those are really impressive as well. How do you imagine, do you think, there was going to be a flow of people, because now I'm starting to see a bigger picture that this is a worldwide initiative quite impressive, with universities, with talent, with potentially access to capital. Right, can you speak a bit towards what the endgame is? Or I guess it never ends. But what would be the next level, or the next couple of steps, or what you want to do with this? Because that could be a game changer to the entire continent in here, right With you, which so much gets bashing for lack of innovation, right? So you're actually acting on that very premise of innovating.

Speaker 1:

I mean the goal for Philip Morris is to have a lighthouse project and I believe, with everything we set up at the moment, that this will be achieved. And I think that there is space for many of these and there are successful ones. Everyone knows Station F, where we all fly as a team tomorrow and visit to them, and I really just believe in this partnership, not just but in the partnerships themselves. And I said in the beginning, most projects are always first started by real estate and we have to think of constructing and so further. But if you open a club, a techno club, nightclub, the most important thing is not you have the best equipped bar and the best sound system. The most important thing is the people inside, because that's where you go and that's the hardest part to build and this is what you really need to look first. But you never stop growing this great community of people inside your club. So that's why it attracts also other great people, which is curation too. In curation you have a pull and a push factor. The pull factor is who is inside, what is inside. It attracts the right people. The push factor is the bouncer. The doorkeeper says okay, sorry, you don't match, not because it's too exclusive. It's more because you don't contribute to the experience inside. If we talk about business and for our ecosystem doesn't match. If people here ask us, can you do a train museum, people ask that we have to say no, it doesn't fit in the industry 4.0 concept and that is actually the thing.

Speaker 1:

So, from day one, when you run these projects and we have other big projects in Berlin like Hegel Airport and Adlershof and all of them, I think an opportunity they missed out is from day zero, when the project starts, you can work on your network, and you have to do it actually, because once we open our club, there should be a queue in front that the bus is on, and I think this is what we do, and that's one of the reasons of maybe two major reasons why we walk out and dose the partnerships. The other is, if we're not thinking into a physical space only, which we don't because we're not renting out just then we need to build a network around that we can also scale without them selling those square meters, because those square meters on the cost side we have a business plan cost us always the same money. So if we want to grow and scale, we have to grow by cost. But we have a limited location and if we want to grow that outside we can, we have to have the network, which is then more scalable because we can have partners from around the world.

Speaker 1:

But I said, we can add on to something they need. They add something we provide as memberships and that is the reason why we really put so much focus on that and I personally I think after two years it shows already effect. Because if you really think that we just got the usage permission, like a couple of weeks ago, in a very fast process because we had a great concept, because it matched into what authorities here can allow, then I have to say already what is happening here who comes in here, all the politics, economic leaders and so further. We see already an effect on the project and that makes us faster and not taking 10 years, because we first look into constructing and then we think, okay, now who can come here, and it takes a really long ramp up.

Speaker 2:

By the way, I love your comparison to running a club with bouncers and and uh you know, queue of uh attracted customers.

Speaker 1:

I really like this and I have to say that, sorry, people think mostly the famous bar card. Why is that queue in front? It's not exclusivity, it's not because we want the most, it's not trading formal, it's simple. There is a group of people inside. They share an experience of electronic music, culture, of a certain framework of values, of respect and so forth. So you really need to look that only people who live the same values but also contribute to the experience they give something to the experience inside, make it better can pass that door. And the ones you cannot let in, they would maybe not fit into that experience. Even the worst case is they abuse the experience because they want to just watch it from outside. But that means the safe space inside has to be protected from the outside world. Make sure the right people come in and you can transport that on every ecosystem, Even if it comes to business, what I said in the platform thing at the beginning, but it comes also when we talk about human beings. It's a similar thing actually.

Speaker 2:

System of values? Absolutely, and since this is a physical location, but you're still talking about all of these partnerships and remote locations and you travel yourself for all of these conversations, is it possible to participate in this community remotely, not being on the ground?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, definitely the plan is to build a membership my favorite project at Factory Berlin. I always believe in a network membership. That means access to the network curated, which makes you being connected to the right people and break it right because your business becomes better and so further. It has a value and it has also, if you make it right, an offering that you build that. This is actually our goal to provide that as well, and there's a lot of things needed digital product or platform we need to discuss. Do we use our own tool, do we use a already provided solution, and so further. But for me it's clear it's one of the value propositions we want to be able to offer. And just that you don't have a space doesn't mean you never are here, because maybe you come twice a year for a conference. We're having a conference center for 10,000 people here, what we're building also, so there will be tech conferences, there will be other points where you might also use the physical space, but not just as a office location or whatsoever.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, absolutely, Especially in the tech industry. There are so many famous conferences around the world and with this kind of network, I can totally see a potential for building your own yeah, or collaborating with some of the existing let's call them brands conferences yeah, fascinating, cool. So with that, I wanted to ask you, you know, what would be an advice or a piece of your own experience from the past that you would like to share with our listeners and leave them with that to dwell on and maybe have a learning from your own past, from your own experiences?

Speaker 1:

Actually, I would say two things. The one can't be told often enough because I think it's shared enough, but it's important to keep going. The thing is, that's the secret. If you read a success story, I hope you become successful. They always share one thing in common you never give up. You go further and further, because one thing leads to the next thing.

Speaker 1:

What I said you to you before maybe you don't succeed in the one thing that you had on your mind. You make a plan, maybe you want to achieve something, and then, when you realize maybe it's not really working, okay, I do the next thing instead of you try to really push and really make it through and by the the time you adapt it, maybe because the plan is a new plan, but at least one thing comes after the other. But there's one thing you have to really be consistent and work on towards things. That is, for me, a thing that I'm always like in my head. I actually don't have the opportunity of failing. I don't know why. Maybe it's a good thing, but if I think we want to do something, I always say, okay, we will do it, and if it doesn't, if there's problems, we solve them when they're coming up right, Because that's also a discussion I had with people from Philip Morris Okay, let's have a plan B, and if we don't get them, then we think of solutions. Because if we think of plan B, C, D in the beginning, we're not strong enough pushing plan A. We want to be succeeding plan A. That's the one thing, and the other thing is think into your network.

Speaker 1:

Don't forget your network. The nice thing about a network is even my network is your network, Lukasz, and people forget that, my forget that. My son said that to me one day when we talked about networks and I try really to explain to younger people, because when you're young you don't think about it and no one teaches you how to care networks, how to be a giver, not a taker, how to kill your network. He said, yeah, but then I don't have your network. I said it's the opposite. You have my network, of course, because when you call, I don't know this, this, this, this person I'm the son of Martin they will speak to you, but you should watch out that you don't kill this connection because you have the network. But then they care that you're not just calling to ask something, that you're not just this abuser and so further. That's another thing. That's the rule how to network. But think that your network is way bigger than you think.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the effect of multiplication of networks and all of that. I strongly believe in that myself. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing. I'm very inspired after this and curious where do you guys launch, like, when can I, you know, come around and pay a visit and see it for myself? What would be Anytime, anytime, lukasz.

Speaker 1:

I have these tours we do every week. In the beginning I figured I did I don't know five, six tours through the whole project and the tour takes two hours. So I said I can't do that. So now we curate the tours. We do a fixed appointment every week, there's a slot and of course you're always invited to take part in this tour. We'd love to have you here and then discuss further what we can do together in the project.

Speaker 2:

Oh wow, Amazing. If there is any way I can help, I'm totally in.

Speaker 1:

You know, I said at the beginning, I think my job here is to sell the vision. And it becomes then real when people really come here because I sold it well. But then we need to have a great team, then we need to be really like delivering something but selling the vision. I can do that to you.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for thank you for this and thank you for the invitation. Absolutely, Martin. It has been tremendous pleasure speaking to you today, so thanks again for being here and, yeah, I'll speak to you soon about maybe a potential of, you know, helping out in the project. Thank you so much for for coming to the show today.

Speaker 1:

Thanks so much for having me asking me all these good questions that always make me think. I like this kind of format, so you were a great host. Thanks for that.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much. Thank you, martin, and thank you to your listeners for joining us today. Whether you're interested in city planning, entrepreneurship or community building, we hope you have come away with fresh ideas and insights. Let us know in the comments and, in the meantime, remember to subscribe so you don't miss out on any of future conversations.

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